loads of unwanted undo steps


#1

when i move 1 slider from minimum to top in one turn it creates dozens of undo steps.
can i change that behaviour?


#2

This is probably my biggest gripe with Touchable too.
Touchable server & control script seems to ping minute steps back and forth to communicate their status to each other.
But this unfortunately makes undo close to unusable - as even for fast and quick moves/changes what should be a single undo action, now is broken down into dozens of small incremental steps, where it is impossible to know when you hit the last ‘real’ position you wanted to get back to.
And for long knob-twiddle sessions the undo history often becomes too large altogether and you can never get back to the initial position before you started tthe wiggle twiddle…

I have a hunch this might be a core Touchable code mechanic, but this proves to be ever more frustrating tbh as this also affects Live’s internal undo behaviour. I.e whenever Touchable is active, everybutton/fader move is broken down into many smaller increments as well, even if one tries to do a given change via mouse in Live directly in order to circumvent the Touchable behaviour.

Would be grand to get Live’s default behaviour back for this - i.e. as long as a control is held & moved, no inbetween undo steps should be created - only once the control/button/slider is released…

Churs.
c.


#3

i hope they hear us


#4

Bump - as this is making Touchable borderline useful when one needs a working undo (i.e. all the time when getting past the noodling around stage…) - would be great to get some input on this.
@Christian / @Pascal - can you share some insights here - i.e. if we can hope for this to be addressed or if this is an integral part of how the control scripts & Live API work (so evrything is sent back & forth as minute increments, therefore flooding the undo queue, and there is no ‘live editing’ / ‘touched on/off’ flag the API could transmit to avoid creating unwanted undo steps in the queue ) ?

Churs.
c.

ps. I just tested something I was curious about & wanted to double check & confirm:
So I have a motorized fader control surface / mixer, which speaks to Live via MCU/Mackie protocol. And if I only use that (and leave Touchable out of the equation), Live clearly registers single undo points, i.e. ‘fader release’ steps. Meaning, I can noodle the fader up & down as long as I want to, even with a complete stand-still for 5-10 seconds [then move again - but keep finger on the fader (not sure if it’s capacitve… but looks like it is…], and Live ONLY creates a single undo step only when I remove my hand from the fader. Which I thought is great, and would be the exact same behaviour I would hope for from Touchable whenever changing a control/fader/rotary/whathaveyou… i.e. create a single undo queue step only when I stop changing the values and ‘release’ the control in question. Hope this makes sense, and fingers crossed this is possible…


#5

Quick note about this:
we will publish an update for the server and scripts tomorrow (v 421) that will tackle this! unfortunately the required changes include putting the meter & position updates back to 15 fps - we are running into a limitation of the Live API here…
we added it as a setting in the server, so you can always switch back to 60fps updates for when you don’t need to access the undo list.


#6

Awesome - thanks Christian! Looking forward to test this.
Is there any point in us, as Ableton users/customers/testers, to flag this shortcoming of the API ?
As this is rather deep down the rabbit hole, it probably would make sense if you guys formulate the shortcoming - but if you need us to chime in / +1 / support a feature request, sing out & link us up please.
Cheers.
c.


#7

This never made it online (so far), right ?

Also - how does one best stay informed about new server releases ?
I’ve missed them on these forums in the past, as pinning does not seem to work. (i.e. this:
https://community.zerodebug.com/t/update-to-1-0-2-server-418/493
despite having the ‘pin’ (which I would assume is meant to communicate it is pinned indeed) is 2 scroll-pages down for me if I look at the section:
https://community.zerodebug.com/c/touchable-pro-beta/l/latest

[oddly enough, the 2 other pinned topics do stay pinned up top… namely:
Setup Instructions Mac OSX
Problems with Live 9.x.x
https://zerodebug.com/touchable/mac-setup
]

Churs.
c.


#8

Yes indeed - sorry for not updating you on this earlier - it took a bit longer than expected to get working.
We’ve now added an option called ‘Studio Mode’ to the servers context menus - activate it and the Undo list spamming will completely stop. However - as noted earlier, the meter and playing position updates will only show at 10-15fps while this mode is active.
We are trying to circumvent that in the future, but haven’t found another solution at this time.

To stay up to date to the latest Servers & Scripts, we opened up two topics that you can subscribe to - we will only add new posts there once a new version is available:

Mac:
https://community.zerodebug.com/t/osx-latest-server-scripts-package-418/460/6

Win:
https://community.zerodebug.com/t/win-latest-server-scripts-package-418/461/5

That pinning behaviour kind of weirded me out in the beginning, too - you can change it in your personal preferences that pinned topics stay pinned - even when already read - the default is set to then make them a ‘normal’ topic in your feed.


#9

No worries & muchos gracias! Mostly wondered if I missed it. Also, the Studio Mode sounds perfect for me (although, higher res/fps/immediate feedback is always welcome :D).
Thanks a ton.
c.


#10

This works great, thanks a lot for adding this extra/new feature!!!
c.